Wednesday, February 15, 2012

Income Inequality and living wage

In recent months the Occupy Wall Street Movement has received a lot of media attention. Though the goals of the movement haven’t always been crystal clear, one idea—“We are the 99%” has resonated with large segments of the American society. Who are these “99%” and what does the movement want for this group? The major sticking point is income inequality. For them, who is the 1% might be a better question. The one percent is CEO’s, hedge fund managers, and top executives who account for 31 % of our nation’s income. This group, for the most part, has not suffered from the recent economic downturn. In a recent University of California at Berkley study revealed that from 2007-2009 Wall Street profits, representing many of the corporations for whom the top one percent work, have risen 720%, while at the same time unemployment has more than doubled, and American’s home equity has diminished by 35%. This last statistic is particularly troubling since most of middle class Americans wealth is tied up in their homes. So, while most of America has been suffering, the wealthiest one percent has actually improved its economic standing. A Yale University study also reveals that during that same time period, 2007-2009, the top one percent has an average of $600,000 more per year to live on, while middle class Americans have experienced a drop in income of nearly $8500 per year. Are these trends fair? Should the government intervene to make income distribution more equal? The opinions of Americans are mixed. President Obama recently stated, “We can’t leave our values at the door….great reformers in American history did their work not just because it was sound policy, or good analysis but because our faith and values dictated it.” I agree with Obama. Our economic policies should be subject to moral judgment. As a recent editorial from “Protestants for the Common Good” stated—“morality and policy should be synonymous. If not we will lose our souls as individuals and our stature as a nation”. One suggestion to bring fairness and morality to our economic system is a proposal to institute a “living wage” as law. A living wage is defined as the bare minimum wage needed to sustain a life above the poverty line. Presently that figure is roughly $10 an hour. Ten states are already discussing such proposals. The benefits are obvious. With food prices going up (5%) over the last year and gas prices dramatically rising (32%), lower and middle class families are struggling to make ends meet. The extra wage would be more money to pay for necessities and could increase consumer spending and government tax revenues. Others counter however, that since such a wage increase would lead to a significant rise in the cost of production, businesses would have to fire workers and outsource more American jobs to cheaper overseas labor markets. Other business leaders argue that a mandated living wage would also lead to higher prices and lower demand, which would make our current economic situation worse. Can American business “afford” to be moral and pay their workers a “living wage”? I believe so. Another study by UC-Berkley involving Walmart—a well-known corporation that hires minimum wage or below living wage salaries, revealed that neither Walmart prices nor profits would be significantly impacted by a living wage proposal. The study projected that the average Walmart customer would pay 36 cents more per visit and only $10 more per year if wage increases were passed on to consumer through higher prices. I would gladly pay that much, if every Walmart worker could receive at least a living wage. I know some smaller companies would have more difficulty meeting that wage standard. However the larger companies, the ones whose profits have soared in recent years, certainly can afford to do the morally right thing. As President Obama said –“we can’t leave our values at the door” when we make policy. It is time to dignify all jobs and guarantee all Americans a “living wage”.

112 comments:

Daniela said...

I feel that a living wage would definitely be the right thing to do, especially when it comes to huge companies such as Wal-Mart and McDonald's. These corporations can afford these higher salaries for their workers and would definitely be helpful to those employees that depend on that meager income to provide for themselves and their families. Also the price hike that would take place is most definitely affordable for most Americans. If big businesses do outsource jobs and cut jobs, it’s only because they are too greedy to suck it up and pay their employees a decent wage.

Suckaplease! said...

Great idea! But its idealistic and a fantasy at best. We simply don't have the right economy to try this now but maybe in a decade or two when the economy improves we can try for this. But we need to fix the immediate problems at hand first.

Irene said...

I agree that people deserve a living wage. However, I don't think that it will be very easy to do. Companies are concerned solely with the "bottom line"--the profits that they will make. If they have to pay workers more, they will cut costs, including laying off workers, to maintain their immense profit margin. I think that instead of just raising the minimum wage, we should make it more appealing to a company to pay workers a fair wage. This could be through government incentives, tax breaks, etc., but I think that going about it in a manner that is in the company's interests will be more effective than simply passing more laws that the companies will resent.

Of course, then we get into the problem of where we are going to get this money, etc. So even this isn't a perfect solution.

Papa John said...

I think that people do deserve a living wage because everyone knows if you have more money in your pocket, then you are more willing to spend it. If people are spending their money then they are stimulating the economy!

Allie said...

Implementing a living wage for workers in America would definitely be a step in the right direction. It's unfairness and selfishness that keeps progressing this economic mess and it's going to take some fairness and generosity to get us out of it. We have to give up some comforts we have in order to see change. Paying only about $10 more per year at Walmart isn't that bad of a consequence.

Percipitation said...

I think increasing the minimum wage to a living wage is not a bad idea. But first we need to look at the pros and cons. Pros being increasing pay so that in can be a actual living wage, which i believe most companies can afford. But as a con, this may cause companies to fire more people. This may drive up the cost of other things like gas. We need to decide whether the pros or cons are greater.

The Most Interesting Man in the World XX said...

I work at Wendy's and it blows cause we get paid 7.25 and I feel i work hard enough to be paid a bigger wage.

Mr.brown said...

Won’t the living wage just bring the prices of all goods to go up? So we will still be in the same pleas. I’m not saying that it is a good thing or a bad thing to do.

XClass2012 said...

I think living wage is a wonderful idea. It would definitely stimulate the economy. I think it's something we should just try and see what happens instead of worrying about the 'rise of the cost of production' or the risk of firing people. Companies like Wal-Mart could probably put more effort into getting the living wages idea across, they make billions of dollars. I don't think it would hurt them any.

Narwhal said...

Suckaplease!:

Don't you think that if a large number of people in the middle class started making a fair wage, they would be able to start putting some of that money back into the economy? I think that if the big companies started paying people fairly that money would show itself in other economically helpful ways as well.

Irene said...

To Suckaplease:
If we wait for "when the economy improves," will that time ever come? There's always some problem that seems more important. If we don't start now, we never will.

Joker said...

I completly agree with that statment. I feel that they are just being selfish not paying their employees a DECENT amount to even live by.

Daniela said...

@ Suckaplease!
Well what are the immediate problems? People have to choose between feeding their kids and paying their rent because their full-time job at McDonald's still doesn't pay enough. I say that's a problem.

The Cheshire Cat said...

Is there a system or some sort of way to create standards that could curb the effects of greed on the economy?

Papa John said...

Yahh i work min wage too and I work every day with crappy hours and I cant even afford to buy a car because of insurance and gas etc. If I got paied a little more it would make a HUGE diffrence

XClassof2012 said...

@Irene I agree. The economy will probably never be exactly where we want. We have to start somewhere, instead of being 'all talk and no bite' at the situation.

eirbua said...

I agree with Irene. I think that everyone in their right mind will agree with the fact that paying employees a living wage is morally the right thing to do. Although, as we all know, our economy is not in a good spot right now. I also agree with Irene that our government should try to make it more appealing to companies (that can afford to do so) to pay their employees a living wage. No company will be enthusiastic about their profits going down because their governement is MAKING them.

XClassof2012 said...

@Irene I agree. The economy will probably never be exactly where we want. We have to start somewhere, instead of being 'all talk and no bite' at the situation.

whitney houston said...

In reply to Daniela and Suckaplease! -

Those huge corperations could without a doubt do it.. they just wont because they want the money for themselves.. The people in charge would rather have the money in their pockets than give the money to the people that are actually helping them make the money for them and put it in their pockets- and my question is what, in your opinion, are the immediate problems?

Yo Amish Brutha said...

I would fully support the concept of a living wage. However, as has happened so many times with raising minimum wage in the past, I fear that inflation would also skyrocket, which would not end up helping workers at all. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Mr. Mojo Risin said...

Your existence means nothing and you do not deserve anything in life. Acquiring money is not a greedy doing, believing you deserve money is.

eirbua said...

I agree with Irene. I think that everyone in their right mind will agree with the fact that paying employees a living wage is morally the right thing to do. Although, as we all know, our economy is not in a good spot right now. I also agree with Irene that our government should try to make it more appealing to companies (that can afford to do so) to pay their employees a living wage. No company will be enthusiastic about their profits going down because their governement is MAKING them.

The Word said...

Honestly if you aren't making enough money to be able to support your family 100% then that's a major problem..a living wage seems to be the ONLY solution.enough to get by and still take care of your family.but I feel as though some people would take the "living wage" for granite and spend it on things they don't need instead of food and household payments.

irma said...

A "living wage" would be so helpful in these times of need. People would be so much grateful about their jobs knowing that they are no longer making "minimum wage". But the problem here is not, if this is a good idea. the problem would be how would we make this work, and make companies pay the "living wage". This would cause many conflicts, and ithink that one of them would be people getting layed off. Many companies would hire the least people possible, and finding a job would be more difficult. ithink that it would be a good idea, because it will help alot. but how would we make this work?

aubrienicole12 said...

I agree that it is going to take more money to do these things since we don't really have any money to spend...

I understand how it is to get paid minimun wage doing a job that should have more. I worked at the Little Gym and I did SO much work. I had to teach gymnastics, dance, karate, and sports classes. I pretty much babysat 15+ kids every hour and worked 6 hour shifts. It was ridiculous. I also did birthday parties. If I babysat that many kids at one time I would go home with 100 bucks roughly for that one night alone. I think that I was well underpaid and it was not fair at all.

These people that get paid and are in the top 1% just sit at their desks and don't do anything but watch their business grow. They hire people to do all the hard stuff for them. I do think it is ridiculous how our economy works but with the recession I don't see that problem changing anytime soon.

Daniela said...

@ The Cheshire Cat
I feel that greed is pretty much always going to be part of our economy. The big bosses want to make money and they will do whatever it takes to make sure that in the end their pockets are lined. I think Irene was definitely on to something when she said we need to somehow make it more appealing to companies to pay their employees a living wage.

Suckaplease! said...

@Daniela and Narwhal

There are so many other significant things going on that we can fix right now! That wouldn't be a process and wouldnt require the public to work with the government. I understand the economy is hard on the middle class right now but at the same time we simply do not have the economy to support this kind of action. It would only make the initial problem of poverty worse in the long run. Lets focus on cutting down on the unemployment rate or creating more jobs or stop people from living beyond their means before we increase their wages!

Percipitation said...

i agree with XX. It may be the only option to work at a minimum wage job. Some people say go to college and get an education to get a better job...well that cost money too.

SColeman said...

I do believe that we should have "living wage". If the bigger companies wont be too much affected by it and workers will surely benefit it from it, then I do not see the issue. Yes, small businesses may face some hardships, and there would be higer prices and lower demand. I'm sure they can figure some type of balance to where it wont hurt the business so much. The "living wage" would highly benefit American's who are barely making ends meet with paying their bills on time and keeping food in the houe to provide for their families. Not only that, they might be able to save up enough money to send their kids off to college; once they get the flow of things. I fully agree with "living wage".

Goldy Locks said...

I feel like a living wage isn't truly going to solve anything. Many smaller and local business are already struggling enough in this economy, and forcing them to pay their employees more will only add more financial problems for them. And even if the living wage is only put on larger compainies that can afford it, that would cause smaller business to lose their employees to the larger companies that are paying more.
It looks good on paper and is a great fantasy, but it isn't very realistic.

Irene said...

HAS inflation skyrocketed since we last raised the minimum wage? I don't really know a lot about economics, but it doesn't seem like it would be that much of a deal. After all, most of our parents work for more than minimum wage, right? Most people are in the middle class, so it wouldn't affect them.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like we'd suddenly be paying $20 for a soda or something if we paid people a living wage.

The Most Interesting Man in the World XX said...

I believe that a raise in minimum wage is needed because it is very hard to live off of and try to enjoy your life. No one wants minimum wage, but it is some people's only option. We need to make sure that all American's can at least get by in life with a steady job.

Yo Amish Brutha said...

Ok, so we all agree that a living wage seems like the morally right course to take. But WOULD IT BE EFFECTIVE? Would it actually help people or would it just promote inflation? What do you guys think?

The Word said...

I agree with Irene as well,a clear point and reasoning.you cant really argue with that.but families to this day who don't have enough money for payments don't have the money because they buy cigarettes and alcohol before buying food to put on the table..their preferences are twisted.

suedehead said...

I think that the entire human population needs to get over the idea of always wanting more. I know that greed will never disappear but people should think about how much things don't matter. When everyone realizes that having every luxury possible isn't actually important, and that being materialistic is stupid, then maybe everyone can actually live reasonably.

Kelly Ripa said...

I think that the moral thing to do for large corporations that can afford it would be to pay employees fair wages. Though I would not go as far as to say they should be required to. I feel pretty certain that if Wal-Mart were to pay their employees higher wages and in turn raise their prices they would not have customers. We say we value morality but we take no personal responsibility. If we truly valued morality we would support moral businesses. Instead we blindly sell ourselves to the lowest bidder. I think that if we truly valued morality Wal-Mart would not exist. Theres also inflation etc. to worry about as well as part time workers that may not require a living wage.

Paula Deen said...

Maybe if we all just added a tad more butter to our diets, we would all get along more. Peace n' blessins, y'all!

eirbua said...

I think we've all established that the living wage is a good idea. So now my question is - how do we make companies more willing to do this? and if we're concerned about people spending it on things they aren't supposed to be, or things they don't need, is there a way we can monitor this?

Papa John said...

I think only the big companies should pay a higher wage.

Big guy & Jimmy Carter said...

I feel as if upgrading and increasing the minimum wage to living wage would be substancially AWSOME. No one wants to feel the pain of STRUGGLE. Not saying this will put struggle to a end, But it will allow peopleto breath a little easier. We all know there are pro's and con's to any situation. So offcourse there is gonna be price inflation, But. 10.00 an hour just sounds alot better than 7.25

Daniela said...

People are always going to take advantage of the system. But there are so many people that would really benefit from a living wage. I don't mean the kids in this class wanting a car or whatever. You guys aren't trying to support a family, are you? Maybe there should be some kind of way to look at how many dependents you have and that kind of thing and base the recipients of a living wage on that.

Narwhal said...

Suckaplease!:

I think that these big companies should definitely Shell out the extra money that the average working person deserves. It's hard enough to keep your head above Water as it is, even with a job. Many people are caught in a financial rip tide. People have Waves of bills to pay, and if they can afford to pay them all, then that money will go back into their local economy, which will ultimately help create jobs. I agree that there are other problems out there but we should be working on fixing them all instead of fighting the tides of one single issue and letting others slide.

The Most Interesting Man in the World XX said...

Ive heard stories about people who have had to quit their jobs and collect unemployment wages because their jobs paid them so terribaly. Does that not seem wrong??? Stay thirsty my friends

Yo Amish Brutha said...

Irene:

I agree, I don't believe it would be an issue unless the government printed a lot more money. I think it would help to decrease the wealth gap, which is dangerously high right now, by making rich business owners cut their own salaries some to pay their employees significantly more. However, with our nation in trillions of dollars in debt, the government is printing a lot of money right now to pay them off.

Allie said...

If implementing a living wage isn't a move that big corporations want to make to help out their employees, then they should take a look at the chief executive of Japan Airlines. In order to keep his business afloat, he took a very large pay cut (now making about $80,000 per year) and got rid of many of the perks he enjoyed as an executive. It's that type of compassion and sense of community that can save our country from these hard economic times. (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sink-or-swim-haruka-nishimatsu-chief-executive-japan-212611/ and AP Psych).

A compromise has to be made to fix the situation. Big corporations can either get rid of their ridiculous benefits or they can start paying their workers a living wage and inflate the prices just a bit.

Zuleyma said...

I think giving people a "living wage" is the right thing to do however I don't think it would really work right now. Big companies are not going to want to raise their workers pay instead they would just outsource their jobs or fire people. I think big companies can afford to pay minimum wage but they are so greedy they would find ways around it and choose not to.

whitney houston said...

everyone deserves a good living space, food, transportation, extra spending money, clothes, heating/air conditioning, and well paying job but that's not reality- that's not america. especially today. today's economy is so back and forth. one day it can be better than before but then even worse than that a few days after. so i think that if america's companies could provide people with a bare minimum- especially in this economy when things are so financially strained then they without a doubt should. they have finances that people who struggle couldn't even fathom about having and would appreciate beyond words.

Anonymous said...

we don't really have any money to spend...

when the economy improves we can do this.

and yes Walmart, Wendy's... neddto pay more.

Percipitation said...

My brother got fired from his job the other day and got offered another job at minimum wage. but he didnt take it because he could draw unemployment and get more money a month than at that minimum wage job. i think they should at least raise the minimum wage up past the unemployment wage.

The Word said...

If employees got paid more,they would most likely be more willing to do their work and consistently show up to their job which would also cause rise in that business and their ability to sell products.I can say that as a customer,if I walk into a store with employees who greet me friendly,seem like they love helping me,and assist me with anything I need..I'm more likely to go there repeatedly and buy their products.

Big Guy & Jimmy Carter said...

Having a Job is one thing but going to work everyday still knowing you can never hid frm the struggle is another, so why not make it a little better by giving All americans Raises.

Goldy Locks said...

@Papa John
But even if only big companies paid higher wages, it would still hurt smaller business. They would lose the majority of their employees. If someone can work at Walmart and get paid $10 an hour, they're going to pick that job over working at some local place that still pays minimum wage.

Katt Williams said...

People just need to learn that in life you're either being hustled, or a hustler.

The Most Interesting Man in the World XX said...

Maybe the government could establish a rule where if a business makes a certain income then they should be required to increase their minimum wage. Stay thirsty my friends ;)

Suckaplease! said...

Do you guys honestly believe that if we increase the wage people are going to stop saying that they do not have enough money? What about the 10% of people in America that do not have wages to increase! are we just gonna forget about them? It just gonna create a more define barrier between the classes. Because when you raise the wages for minimum wage than the standards to get a minimum wage job will increase. Certain people who weren't able to go to college suddenly cannot qualify for a MINIMUM wage job. This is just gonna make the poverty in America worse and more traumatic, you have to look at it in the long run. Who is to say that the increase will even be enough?

Daniela said...

@ The Word: "but families to this day who don't have enough money for payments don't have the money because they buy cigarettes and alcohol before buying food to put on the table.their preferences are twisted."
OK... so are you saying all people that can't afford to feed their families are alcoholics and tobacco users? There are so many people that need a living wage, but it's blanket statements like this that make them seem like terrible, lazy people that just want to take advantage of the system.

whitney houston said...

big guy;

you're right.

10 an hour sounds way better than 7.25. i rather babysit, because that's better money than work at my real job these days. one family i make 10 an hour and another 15 an hour- depending on how many children there are.. at my real job, i make 7.75- i even feel better about than compared to someone who make 7.25 somewhere else. the littlest bit helps these days!!!

Irene said...

@ Papa John:

If only the big companies had to pay a living wage, they would split into smaller companies owned by a larger one just to get around that rule. Like how Unilever owns a lot of the brands you use, but each brand is different. There would be too many ways to get around that rule.

little ceasar said...

also one of the biggest problems are the company's CEO's making such huge profit. 720% increase in 2 years? maybe more of the money should go to rebuild jobs and stabalizing in the economy.

aubrienicole12 said...

"You can't boost an economy without tagging the major problems."

THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

People are not CAPABLE of spending money because they don't have any money to spend!

We really can't deal with this later because our economy won't change. If we don't start making some changes now then we never will. We have to start somewhere.

XClassof2012 said...

@Allie Beautiful example. I agree. We should definitely look at other countries (let go some of that American dream pride) and see what they are doing for their people, so we can do the same.

Anonymous said...

I agree, printed a lot more money is gust going to make this worst in the long time.

Yo Amish Brutha said...

Zuleyma:

Good point about outsourcing. I don't see that being a problem in restaurants and sales places, but it could be an issue in low-paying manufacturing jobs. In order to accommodate this, I believe the U.S. should adjust its tariffs and regulations to help discourage outsourcing.

Papa John said...

Goldy Locks- but we are still in a bad economy and people will take any job they can get, plus wal mart cant hire everyone. people will still work for min wage.

Zuleyma said...

I agree with Daniela it is not those people's fault that the system is not perfect and they still need to be helped because they have families to support.

Allie said...

@Percipitation "i think they should at least raise the minimum wage up past the unemployment wage."

That's a great point! People need incentive to go out and work so they're not living off of the government. I understand that some people cannot work and need unemployment to live but some people who can work take advantage of it. Some measure needs to be taken in this situation. I think if Americans stopped taking advantage of the system we wouldn't have as big of a problem as we do now.

Anonymous said...

Places like Walmart and Wendys deserve to have eggs thrown at them...eggs shaped like bricks, made of bricks

Yo Amish Brutha said...

little ceasar:

That's how it should be, but that's one of the side effects of pure capitalism: a few people get really rich off the backs of a lot of others.

XClassof2012 said...

@aubrienicole12 Tackle it all at once then? LOL

Zuleyma said...

Yo Amish Brutha:

I agree, the U.S. should find a way to discourage outsourcing because it's a big part of the problem.

Papa John said...

Irene- More companies is good. that leads to compitition and i know everyone loves when gas stations get in gas wars. so if we had more brands they would compete and lower the prices. Its an all around win

Daniela said...

@ Suckaplease!
Do you really think Wal-Mart is going to require a degree to stock their freezers because they are paying them $2 more an hour?

Kelly Ripa said...

We live in a capitalist society, if you start a business and make money it is your money. If you have an excess it would be moral to give some back but we can't require you to. Its your money. It all comes back to having personal responsibility. If you think something is immoral don't support it. Until then I don't think we have the right to complain.

Big Guy & Jimmy Carter said...

If your living in America,Its a preety good chance your gonna get screwed over alot in life, Our economy is not set to please us but to tease us. They make us feel like we can have something for nothing. So honestly the pay raise would be wondefull but there still is gonna be major Con's in result of the pay increase.

irma said...

i agree with Papa John

maybe it would be helpful if the big companies started paying a living wage first. i think its easier for them since they are pretty big companies. like Walmart & McDonalds they are international companies now. they make enough money to pay they employees more than just a minimum wage.

Percipitation said...

@Allie

Exactly my point! Why would people go out and work to make less money than they can get if they just sit at home doing nothing and draw unemployment.

Mr. Mojo Risin. said...

If you are unsatisfied with your pay and blame the government or the people who do have wealth, you need to conduct a major re-analysis on the reasons your pay is low. The Lizard King has spoken.

Yo Amish Brutha said...

Do you think a better idea would be to increase minimum wage in small increments and simultaneously put a cap on CEO pay? That was, executives could not take as much money for themselves and would basically have nothing better to do with it than pay their workers more money.

aubrienicole12 said...

@XClassof2012: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I don't know what you're trying to get at hence that doesn't make sense because I said nothing about tackling it all at once

CoachB said...

All-knowing Mr. Mojo risin--how do you explain such drastic income inequality?

irma said...

Zuly
i agree with you. i think that most companies would be able to pay a living wage, but most are not willing to spend

Irene said...

@ Papa John:

No, because they're still run by the same people. They're not more companies, they're the same company with different names. The money from "competition" just goes to the same people, so there isn't really any competition at all.

mr. Brown said...

little ceasr
I agree they need to let some of there money go.

Kelly Ripa said...

Big guy, I feel like getting "screwed over" by life is more of an international problem

XClassof2012 said...

@aubrienicole12 LOL Kidding. But I agree with you. We have to start somewhere and get things done.

Kelly Ripa said...

Mr. Mojo Risin, I think that was a super-cool and unique comment. The Doors are cool and retro.

Mr. Mojo Risin said...

@CoachB

No one said life had to be fair or even enjoyable.

Narwhal said...

I am shore that based on the data given in the initial blog, this movement makes total sense. I mean, water these big companies thinking to pay people so little? Clearly to pay them fairly would hardly make a difference to them, it would just be a drop from the ocean. And if that is the case, why aren't they already doing it? Their employees are swimming it debt! Something is fishy there. The answer is greed, and I think this is a good reason why people in movements like Occupy Wall Street want to make a change in the way we do business as Americans. I think we should have other big groups getting involved here, like the Marines. It is easy to sea that it is not moral to own a huge business and reap huge benefits while your employees struggle to make ends meet.

Allie said...

@Yo Amish Brutha

It would definitely be ideal to increase minimum wage and put a cap on CEO pay and we would definitely see a change. The only problem is actually getting companies to agree to that. People are very individualistic and CEOs wont be willing to give up their perks.

Papa John said...

irene- but it still lowers the prices for us the consumers

Yo Amish Brutha said...

CoachB - Part of it is the nature of capitalism, part of it is the reluctance of politicians to cap the salaries of business executives, because those execs are usually the ones financing political campaigns.

Mr. Brown said...

i think that most companies would be able to pay a living wage.

Irene said...

@ Yo Amish Brutha:

Sure! Tie CEO pay to the pay of the lowest-earning worker, so they can only be a certain percentage apart. That way, if the CEO wants a raise, everyone else gets a raise, too. Fair for everyone.

little ceasar said...

Most people dont bring this into consideration, but there is a large majority of people who are working minimum wage that have to raise on average 2-3 kids. and working 40 hours a week, its not enough to support a family. Also there is a high percentage of those people who are single parents, therefore making it even more difficult for people to live.

Kelly Ripa said...

Narwhal, I don't think Occupy Wall Street makes total sense and I do think it would a difference to many large companies to be required to pay higher wages

The Frenchgirl said...

I think the $10 more to the salary is a good idea! For exemple if an employee at McDonald's has those $10 per hour, the food will be raised but not that much, so it is good. But the main good thing is that people are going to live better because a few hundred of dollard can help a lot!

Bobbi Kristina said...

I think that there should be living wages because walmart and those bigger companies have a lot going into them and the workers there should get paid more then what they already get paid.

Yo Amish Brutha said...

Allie:

Exactly, especially when, as I said to CoachB, it is often the CEOs who finance the campaigns of the politicians who have the power to limit them.

Kelly Ripa said...

Mr mojo risin, though life doesnt have to be fair and enjoyable I would imagine that it should be the goal

Bobbi Kristina said...

I also agree with the first comment papa john made because its true the more money they have in there pockets the more they are willing to spend.

Mr. Mojo Risin said...

Kelly Ripa, thanks.

Big Guy & Jimmy Carter said...

The pursuit of happiness is our drive and the money seems to be our fuel, And there is no drive without fuel...........

CoachB said...

Mr. Mojo--you don't address th er issue. By definition we live in a community--a "social contract" and we do have some responsiblity for fairness. Otherwise we might as well live in the "wild" and do whatever we want.

Mr. Mojo Risin said...

@CoachB

Then let's cross our fingers for 2012.

Daniela said...

I feel that most of the problems go back to greed. Everybody wants to make sure they get ahead of the next person without any regard to who may get hurt.

Suckaplease! said...

@Yo Amish Brutha

I could not agree with you more. This would just take capitalism to a level where it begins to have a negative affect on the people. Like Mr. Brown said capitalism is good in moderation.

Irene said...

@ Daniela:

I definitely agree!

Anonymous said...

My 1st comment -- The author presents a one-sided view with one-sided reports, then added his own editorial agreeing with this view. As an educator, where is the ‘food’ for thought provided allowing for bilateral discussion?

My 2nd comment – Maybe this is a surprise to some folks, 100% (not 99.9%) of the wealth created in this country to pay for all government, federal and state salaries (Firemen, Policemen, Teachers, etc…) and handouts (Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc…) comes from the private sector (i.e, Wal-mart, Apple,
Exxon, etc…), large and small companies alike. Government (Federal and State) create zero wealth and are only users of the wealth created by the private sector.

My 3rd comment -- I would like to add a simple example to illustrate how this socialistic view not only does not help instead actually has the exact opposite effect. Let’s look at the iconic ‘Lemonade stand’. I use borrowed money or my own capital to start 10 lemonade stands, I sell 100 servings of lemonade per stand a day at a price of $1.00 per serving. I hire 10 part time workers ( 1 per stand) at $5.00 per hour. I keep the stand open for 5 hours per day. The cost of the lemonade is $0.50 per serving. We will incorporate our lemonade stand. Now let’s summarize what we have so far (Sales 100 servings X $1.00 per serving X 10 lemonade stands = total sales of $1,000). Our lemonade stand must pay expenses out of this ‘gross’ profit, we pay 50 cents a serving to make the lemonade and we pay our workers $5 for 5 hours per day, let’s calculate our ‘net’ profit ($1000 total sales minus $25 labor per stand X 10 stands = $250, minus 50 cents per serving times 100 servings per stand times 10 stands = $500 this leaves total ‘net’ profits of $250). Simply stated we have created $500 of wealth , $250 for labor and $250 for the business. Now let’s add the government to the equation, they take 35% (.35 times $250 = $87.50) corporate tax from the business and at this level let’s say 5% (.05 times $250 = $12.50) from the employees. Now let’s look at what we have so far, we have created wealth for the government ($100 = $87.50 + $12.50), workers ($237.50 = $250 - $12.50), business ($162.50 = $250 - $87.50). Now let’s put the ‘living wage’ (i.e., minimum wage) theory to practice, the government tells us we must pay a minimum of $10 per hour to our workers. Let’s calculate the numbers for our business with the new government ‘regulations’ , same calculations as above (Sales 100 servings X $1.00 per serving X 10 lemonade stands = total sales of $1,000) same as before, all good so far, now let’s calculate the ‘net’ profit using our new mandated labor costs ($1000 total sales minus $50 labor per stand X 10 stands = $500, minus 50 cents per serving times 100 servings per stand times 10 stands = $500 this leaves total ‘net’ profits of $0) hmmm… oops… this is not good, I no longer have an incentive to open any lemonade stands. I am now out of business. Let’s look at the wealth created now $0 for the government, $0 for workers and $0 for the business. This is exactly what happens when the government gets overly involved in free market capitalism.

My 4th comment -- It is a wonder to me why certain private corporations are vilified over others (or vilified at all) since they provide all the wealth that pay for all government services and salaries. Some people attack Wal-mart they make only a 3-4% marginal profit on their sales they gave over $900 million to charities in 2011, they supply hundreds of thousands of jobs and supply low cost goods to millions of people (what have you done lately??). Exxon also gets vilified but only makes 7% marginal profits and provides energy that runs our country. However for some reason Apple gets a pass and makes 40-50% marginal profit.

My 5th comment – Perhaps some unbiased classes on free enterprise capitalism would go a long way to improving our countries business IQ. Which from reading this blog is sorely needed.

CoachB said...

Anonymous,
Though I take offense with the tone and insinuations of this post, I do think the author presents a corresponding point of view that students should consider. Certainly, it is not my intention to "indoctrinate" my class. There are "facts" all sides can throw out. I will say that I am well-versed in economics and US History, I just don't happen to share your world view. But as the motto of our class reads--"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." (Aristotle) We can only grow as a nation to the degree we are willing to chalenge each other. As Gandhi said--"Honest disagreement is often a sign of progress." Hopefully in this scenario, Gandhi is right.

Anonymous said...

No 'Tone' was intended or offered, only factual observation. All studies cited are one-sided. The editorial is one-sided. How do you intend on having a cogent bilateral discussion if no opposing information is given or referenced? As you quote your class motto and Aristotle -- "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." How can your students/readers even 'entertain' a thought for consideration if it is never presented?? Just to emphasize the point, if you look at the comments there are approximately 80 that are pro 'living wage' and approximately 12 that are mildly opposing (does that not tell us something?). You mention in your comment that 'indoctrination' is not your intention, but may perhaps be the result, even if unintended.

Irene said...

Hello, Anonymous. You really got me fired up, so I want to add my own two cents.

In response to your first comment: if you would like to add your own reports to support your opinion, go ahead. Yes, perhaps the post was biased, but we did have in-class discussions (which you probably do not know about) that showed us both sides. In the blog, Coach B was just showing us his point of view for us to respond to, either positively or negatively. We all know that he’s not going to grade us based on if we agree with him or not, and we know that you have to take everything with a grain of salt. So I would say, as a whole, it was pretty fair.

In response to your second comment: I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at here. Of course we can’t do without the private sector (you can’t have a government if there’s nothing to govern, right?)! Is that what you were trying to say? However, the immensely disproportional salaries of CEOs, hedge fund managers, etc., as compared to those of salespeople, cashiers, waitresses, etc., is a problem. If everyone earned a living wage, we wouldn’t need so much money in taxes to pay for food stamps, Medicare, and all those other programs. Then you get lower taxes and everyone wins.

In response to your third comment: I think the reason your “simple example” ends up “proving” your point is because it’s wrong; you’re making your profits a FRACTION of what they would be in a real business—for the sake of simplicity—and then proposing to pay the SAME DOLLAR AMOUNT in wages (apples to oranges, anyone?). Skip the fractions and use the dollar amount of profits in a real, logical business and the wages you used will be reasonable. If you have a real small business, you end up with a heck of a lot more profit than your dinky lemonade stand made and you can afford to pay decent wages. Let’s say you’re a corporation that makes BILLIONS in profits—if you say you can’t afford to pay your lowest tier of workers a living wage, you’re lying.

In response to your fourth comment: the reason why Walmart and Exxon are vilified is that they abuse their workers. There’s a great quote in Barbara Ehrenreich’s memoir, Nickel and Dimed, in which she notes that her fellow Walmart employee can’t afford to buy a shirt from Walmart, on clearance, with a stain on it, and there has to be something wrong with that. Then you have to consider all the Chinese sweatshop workers that made Walmart’s goods so cheap. So what if Walmart gave you a job if you can’t live on the wages you’re making? You might as well not have a job at all. My family doesn’t shop at Walmart because we condemn that behavior. It’s not only about the profit margins; it’s about treating employees with dignity, which includes giving them a living wage.

In response to your fifth comment: when we only teach “free enterprise capitalism,” THAT is bias. Personally, I’d like to learn about socialism and communism without bias, but our Civics and Economics classes only go into the capitalist view of economics (which is exactly what you’re asking for). The Red Scare was decades ago, and we’re still not over it, because we still don’t dare say that socialism and communism could have ANY benefits.

Sorry that took so long to say. I apologize for the all caps, but I don’t know how to put in italics. And of course, anyone should feel free to respond.

Anonymous said...

Hi Irene,
Getting fired up about your country and education is a good thing. As to your response to my 1st comment I would point you to my other comment that begins with
'No Tone' it is quite evident 'statistically' that whatever discussion you received that was supposed to show 'both sides' must have been skewed or very abbreviated -- far from fair or balanced. If you are truly interested in a fair/balanced treatment of capitalism -- may I suggest a book by (Nobel Prize Winner in Economics) Milton Friedman ' Capitalism and Freedom'. Then of course as we still have our freedom in this country, you can make up your own mind.
The second comment is a very important point. There is not enough room nor do I have enough time to go in depth on this (reading the book above would go along way in helping). I like that you stated 'Of course we can't do without a private sector' -- I believe very strongly in this. However other ideologies such as communism 'try' (and fail) to do that very thing. My primary point was/is the private sector creates "ALL" the wealth that this country enjoys, the 'Public' sector (i.e., all those who are paid from taxes collected at the state and federal levels) consumes wealth, the more it consumes (or takes) from the private sector is 'less' wealth the private sector has to 'pay' employees.
Third comment -- Well if anything the profits are way 'OVERSTATED' a 'real' businesses would kill for 25% profit margins (as stated before the vilified Wal-Mart makes 3-4%). To get to millions or even billions you only have to multiply the number of stores by the appropriate number of lemonade stands, the math is still the same if my cost go up by the same as the example I am still out of business only now thousands of people are out of work and millions of dollars of wealth go away. The example is only too 'real' especially for small businesses, and in real life do go out of business when government taxes and regulations cause costs to go up to the point they cannot stay in business and everyone loses.
Fourth comment -- Not to make to much of a point of it, but you would have to stop shopping pretty much everywhere if you are not buying Chinese, that make goods cheap. There is just to much mis-information in this comment. I would suggest finding some credible resources for some real facts and balanced information. (I would suggest 'The Heritage Foundation' as a credible source of information for many things economic and political, but of course not exclusively.
Fifth comment - I did not say 'only' teach free enterprise capitalism. I highly encourage you to go 'outside' the classroom teaching to learn about Socialism, Communism and free enterprise Capitalism. Give them all a fair and objective study.
My final comment -- free market capitalism has done more to enrich the world than any other system.
P.S. - “The Constitution only guarantees the American people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.”
― Benjamin Franklin